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PRESENTER: Welcome, viewers. Here we are with Adnan Oktar, known as Adnan Hodja to the public and as the author of books written under the name of Harun Yahya. We will be chatting to him on our programme “From the Wires.” Sir, first of all, welcome to our programme.
ADNAN OKTAR: Thank you.
PRESENTER: I would like to start asking questions without losing any time. In order for our viewers to obtain a little more information, you appear with a powerful group image. In that sense, could you tell us something about your and your community’s basic aim, that of those around you?
ADNAN OKTAR: The main aim of the group constituted around me is Allah’s approval. To earn Allah’s approval. They have no worldly ambitions. Earning Allah’s paradise in the Hereafter. Serving the motherland, the nation and the flag as good people in the life of this world, and striving to make the world a better place, not just the Turkish nation but the whole world.
PRESENTER: You follow an Islamic line, but when we look at the other communities on that path they present a more closed appearance and a more marginal structure. Yet when we look at your vision we see a more contemporary structure. What is your evaluation of this?
ADNAN OKTAR: In fact, a Muslim is a supra-modern person. In other words, the modernity of the century is insufficient for a Muslim. So is the modernity of the century to follow. If our Prophet (saws) were to appear now he would be the most modern individual of this century. He is also a modern human being of the centuries to come. A Muslim is the highest quality, most select, most rational, most balanced and most consistent of people. A Muslim is agreeable, loveable, compassionate, does no harm to himself or those around him, and is rather beneficial to himself and to others. That is my belief. The people around me think along the same lines.
PRESENTER: When we look at Islamic communities with such a feature they are able to keep people together with the closed dimension of the faith. How do you manage to keep so many people united. I want to ask that perfectly clearly. In other words, people in such communities can be held together by way of a financial or commercial relationship or with religious dogmas. What is the argument that you employ?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course it is Allah who keeps people together above and beyond anything else. They combine together because it is in their destiny to do so. Allah inspires their hearts and they act accordingly. But when you ask about the direct cause of this, I imagine that you will ask about the direct cause employed by Allah. In that sense, I imagine the cause is my sincerity. Because I am a most sincere individual. I am someone who attaches great importance to honesty in interpreting the Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (saws) and in living according to Islam. With me, what you see is what you get. I think that this has a powerful effect.
PRESENTER: Such communities have a powerful influence on politics, especially in Turkey. Where do you stand on this?
ADNAN OKTAR: I am someone who avoids politics. My friends also stay away from politics. But in general terms I support the right in Turkey. In other words, I support everyone, every party, every group, every individual who is nationalist, religious and devout.
PRESENTER: Do you then distance yourself from the left, when you say you support the right?
ADNAN OKTAR: If there are religious leftists, then of course I support them, too.
PRESENTER: I have another question to do with politics. To be more accurate, what I call your community has a powerful image. In that sense, there must be politicians, civil servants and senior executives among the members of that community. Are there? Let me put that to you first.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, there are. There are also academicians, and lawyers, scientists, doctors. All minds of people.
PRESENTER: Are there any members of the military?
ADNAN OKTAR: Some members of the military fully support us. Among them, there are a lot of people who feel sympathy for us.
PRESENTER: Now, let me ask you this. Many communities can be managed from abroad . During the latest court proceedings you requested that the ban on you leaving the country be lifted. No decision has yet been reached, as I understand it.
ADNAN OKTAR: Correct.
PRESENTER: Do you have any intentions of going abroad and living there?
ADNAN OKTAR: I find that astonishing, even comic. Because I have never to date even held a passport. I have never applied for one. I have no intention of going overseas. I could never settle down there. I am the kind of person who can only settle alongside his own compatriots. I could never live with people whose language I do not understand, whose faith and culture are different from mine. I could never live happily. There is no reason for me to go. In addition, I am a man with a cause, and there is no question of me going off and abandoning it. Everything in Turkey is in any case urgent; there is the danger of separatism in Turkey. There is the phenomenon of terrorism. There is an attack on things religious. I cannot stand by and watch. Nor am I going to go abroad and embark on a struggle there. I do not regard a struggle being waged from abroad as rational. Neither do I find it compatible with my personal honour, by status as a Muslim, or my beliefs; I see it as illogical.
PRESENTER: Yes, but there is still the matter of that petition. Is that petition not intended to allow you to go abroad from time to time?
ADNAN OKTAR: Only for the ban to be judicially lifted. Because it is totally unnecessary. And propaganda…
PRESENTER: You say you have never held a passport?
ADNAN OKTAR: Correct. I am trying to resolve the issue because it is being used as a propaganda tool in the psychological war being waged.
PRESENTER: Who is it who is fighting against you, Mr. Adnan Oktar?
ADNAN OKTAR: Masons, atheist Zionists, various Marxist groupings. They have been engaged in that struggle for ages.
PRESENTER: As a community, do you have any quarrel with the regime? I want to link that to the latest developments, to the subject of the headscarf. Turkey has almost been split right down the middle. Those wearing the headscarf are fundamentalists, and those not wearing it are secularists. How do you look at it?
ADNAN OKTAR: At the matter of the headscarf?
PRESENTER: Starting from the headscarf to the matter of the regime.
ADNAN OKTAR: The regime. I follow an Ataturkist, nationalist and religious line. I therefore have nothing to trade with the regime. So far, there has been nothing in the line taken by or actions of the present regime that I find distasteful. But with regard to the headscarf I am of course troubled by the way that these girls are stuck in front of the school gates. They are innocent, very nice, very pleasant young girls, and there is no sense in persecuting or oppressing them. Let them go into their classes; nothing will come of it. What could come of it anyway: what are three, or five or 10 girls wearing headscarves in class going to change? It is just enrichment. In other words, Jews should be allowed into classes with their skullcaps. Christians can wear their own attire. This is all variety, added colour, and there is no need to be made uneasy by it.
PRESENTER: Hmm... Does your community have powerful financial means behind it? Because that is the most worrying thing about such communities. What can you tell us about your community’s financial structure?
ADNAN OKTAR: All my colleagues are very wealthy, each and every one. But…
PRESENTER: To put it more directly, where does the money come from?
ADNAN OKTAR: My colleagues are highly intelligent, entrepreneurial, honest in business, rational people, who work in the finest manner whenever they undertake to do anything, and who produce the very best results. They are scrupulous when it comes what is lawful and what is prohibited. When business matters arise, therefore, the people around us tend to turn to these colleagues of mine. They then present the business put to them in the best manner and of course earn their legitimate share from it. But I can state that each and every one is in any case very wealthy, mashaAllah.
PRESENTER: Is your foundation totally reliant on donations, or does it also engage in commercial activities?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course they engage in business and undertake a range of activities. Some are in the construction industry, others in imports and exports or manufacturing. They are engaged in very useful activities. They really benefit the motherland and the nation.
PRESENTER: At one time you frequently appeared in gossip magazines, especially, as you know, regarding the interest shown in your community by top models.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.
PRESENTER: What is your analysis of that?
ADNAN OKTAR: There are no limits in psychological warfare – any means may be employed. They will resort to anything that touches the public nerve, that might mislead or have a negative impact on them. That is why they always concentrated on the most sensitive aspects of the Ebru Simsek case or other cases. In other words, a young girl was “blackmailed,” something that would have a negative impact on and infuriate the public. They tried to secure that. But I was acquitted and the 2nd Criminal Court proved it was all a slander. The court delegation saw from the film they were shown that the two homes were completely different. The truth emerged and the matter was put to rest. But that was never mentioned by the press. Why not? Because according to the rules of psychological warfare, positive information is never broadcast, only negative things. Slanders and insults are reported, but never the truth. But the public still come to hear the true facts. Psywar experts are not really up[ to hiding these things from the public gaze.
PRESENTER: Do you have any set criteria for entry into your community? Can any wealthy person meet you and become a member? What are your criteria?
ADNAN OKTAR: You are asking about our membership criteria? My condition, and I have only one, is this; that the other person should be genuine. As genuine and honest as can be. Honesty is enough for that person to be my friend.
PRESENTER: Right. Now you have very serious publications. These have been translated into a number of languages, particularly in Europe. These form part of the struggle you are engaged in. You just said that there was no question of your going abroad as you could never settle down there because you are a man with a cause.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.
PRESENTER: Could you elaborate a little on that cause? Could you give us some details?
ADNAN OKTAR: Above all, my cause is to obtain the approval of Allah. It is a cause intended to make Turkey great, to eliminate terror and anarchy in Turkey. To make Turkey a place of wealth and well-being. To make it a place where everyone is happy. When I go out I don't see smiles on people's faces. They don’t even look at one another, they avoid each other. That really troubles me. Our people are humane, loveable and very pleasant. They enjoy love and dialogue among one another in their family relationships. But a terrible chill and lovelessness prevail outside the home. That needs to be resolved. But everyone now regards it as perfectly normal. And that in turn is not normal. Two people should greet another when they meet, smile at one another and talk. This is a huge gap that needs to be filled. I am struggling to bring that about.
PRESENTER: Yes, in democracies people generally seek the answers to things you have described in politics. But you have assumed such a cause with your community. At the start of the programme you said that you did your best to keep your distance from politics. Why is it that you are trying to resolve these issues by way of your own community rather than through politics? You also said that you follow Ataturk’s line, but on 25 November, 1930, he closed many religious institutions and forbade the use of such words as Shariah and disciple. What do you say to that? Exactly what aspects do you think you can solve with this group, the people you have around you?
ADNAN OKTAR: Faith is the strongest idea in the world, and ideas are the most powerful weapons. Ideas can solve anything, which is why I attach pride of place to ideas. Politics resolve nothing. Politics without ideas is utterly helpless.
PRESENTER: Is that how you see politics at present?
ADNAN OKTAR: There is powerful religious activity going on, and if the right has grown strong in Turkey it is a reflection of that. The right did not just happen to grow strong by chance. The intellectual foundation of the right is based on belief in Allah and in the elimination of Darwinism. The eradication of Darwinism and the growth and development of faith are also reflected in politics in Turkey. But were there no such activity, if there were no faith-oriented cultural activity, such results could not have been achieved by politics alone.
PRESENTER: Hmm... How do you regard Ataturk’s closure of the religious congregations.
ADNAN OKTAR: Ataturk closed down the sects. But the normal religious communities, Ataturkist communities…
PRESENTER: At the end of the day he closed many congregations down.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, yes.. But he encouraged and appreciated those communities that followed his line. If Ataturk were alive today he would be very proud of us, of my group of friends. My group of friends are just the kind of generation that Ataturk wanted to see. In a speech he gave, Cemal Kutay even said that my friends and I were the liberating young generation and group that Atatürk mentioned about. That means we are representing, expounding and living by Ataturk’s ideas extremely well. What was Ataturk’s distinguishing feature? He was a nationalist, a religious individual who loved the motherland and the nation. What is our distinguishing feature? The same. That means that we constitute a group who represent Ataturk in the best possible manner.
PRESENTER: Yes. Now, are you organised across the whole of Turkey? Are there foundation representatives everywhere? How many provinces are you organised in? Could you tell us something about that?
ADNAN OKTAR: I am not in favour of formally organised activity. And I do not accept organized activity. We have free friendship. The people around me are not subject to any formal community discipline or structure. Their relationships are based on friendship and they regard one another as friends and act within the freedom bestowed by friendship. Formal organisation and discipline are absent from the spirit of Islam. What there is in Islam is honest individuals seeking the approval of Allah. There are sincere Muslims, people who abide by the moral values of the Qur’an. There is therefore no need for any formal structure.
PRESENTER: There are presumable some people who have been expelled from your group of friends, whom you describe as your friends and as a group, or who are no longer with you.
ADNAN OKTAR: So long as there are not atheists and do not deny Allah, I never sever my ties with anyone. Someone may still be an atheist, he may not believe in Allah, but if he has lost respect, particularly if he has lost respect for us, then naturally I am not going to speak to him. But I may continue talking to him if he maintains his respect and good manners.
PRESENTER: Yes, you are active in the field of education. When you look at the East of Turkey, are you engaged in any activities in the East in that sense?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. We want there to be a cultural regeneration in the east. We want materialist, atheist and Darwinist education there to come to an end, as in the whole of Turkey. We believe that this needs to be straightened out first. After that comes economic well-being, the raising of economic standards there, and our brothers in the east living in peace, brotherhood, security and love. That is our objective. So I want to see those areas becoming wealthier, industrial and agricultural development, as much freedom as possible for our citizens there, the elimination of the gulf between western and eastern Turkey, people from the east settling here and people from the west migrating to the east, and for the whole of Turkey to regard the area as an instance of those fine moral values. For example, people in the east have a very fine virtue – they are extremely hospitable. But many people are unaware of that. They give guests and friends their best food and their best rooms. They are very polite, very respectful, unbelievably respectful in the east. People need to know these things. This is something that will increase people’s affection for and dialogue with them. But cultural activity is a precondition for all this. That is what we attach our priority to.
PRESENTER: Let us continue with our own agenda here. We glossed over the headscarf issue with a single question, so let us expand on that a bit. In your view is the headscarf, and this is currently the subject of much public debate, a religious obligation or requirement?
ADNAN OKTAR: The authorised institution in that context is the Ministry of Religious Affairs. The ministry has issued a report saying that the headscarf is a religious requirement. The matter is now closed and there is nothing further to discuss.
PRESENTER: What is your view of the matter?
ADNAN OKTAR: Our view in general runs parallel to that of the ministry. We are of the same opinion.
PRESENTER: Are there any women who do not cover their heads among your group of friends?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, there are. There are women who cover their heads and women who do not.
PRESENTER: Is there any question of their being encouraged to cover themselves up?
ADNAN OKTAR: No.
PRESENTER: You said that your main aim was to earn Allah’s approval. This subject also appears to be tied up with that approval, or so it appears from your statements.
ADNAN OKTAR: The Qur’an is there for all to see. Scholarly texts are there for all to see. I merely call them to the Qur’an, but I never tell people to do this or not to do that. There can be no compulsion in religion. In any case Allah tells us in the Qur’an what the faith has to tell us. In addition, I would never ask anyone why they failed to cover themselves up.
PRESENTER: Terrorism has again hit the headlines lately. There was a cross-border operation. What is your view of that? PKK terrorism or, though not so much intense at the moment, theIslamic terrorism , they are still going on to a certain extent. What is your analysis?
ADNAN OKTAR: If I were given the authority I would throw books out of the backs of aeroplanes. I would distribute them by plane, by military vehicles, to all our villages. First, I would fill all villages with books. If it were up to me I would start off with a cultural campaign. When I say that I would “throw” books out of planes, by the way, I mean I would attach them to parachutes and thus distribute them in the nicest manner possible. As always, I would like to see the problem resolved with peace, love, dialogue and good intentions. War is the last resort. Defensive war is possible only when all other avenues have been exhausted. Otherwise I am opposed to fighting.
PRESENTER: Hmmm… Have you any message for people living in the south-east of Turkey in particular?
ADNAN OKTAR: Our brethren there, our brothers in south-east Turkey, live in an area that lives by Islam in a most excellent way, that has done so since very ancient times, an area that has produced valuable Islamic scholars and eminent scientists. Some people are attempting to divide us along artificial lines, and our citizens there must never permit that. All of Turkey loves and respects the people of the south-east. I believe that the people living there are spotlessly pure, worthy of the greatest respect. I believe they should be able to enjoy the highest standards of living. The first thing to be done is to put an end to materialist, atheistic and Darwinist education. There needs to be a serious campaign against Darwinism. That has to be the priority. Anticommunist, anti-Marxist activity is very important. People need to be told of the damage done by communism and of the errors of Marxism. We can engage in successful activities there, so long as any obstacles are removed from our path and if various means are placed at our disposal. In that case we can do these things very well. However, for our people in the south-east, various other emergency precautions need to be taken, such as food aid, clothing assistance and help with fuel, if industrialisation cannot be brought about immediately. We must first show them the extent of our affection for them and how much we want to protect them, care for them. They need to be told how abnormal, wrong and ugly the separatist and divisive policies placed before them really are. They need to be told that there is no need for fighting and terror. But of course if there is terrorism going on there, then naturally the military will take the appropriate steps to defend the nation. That is a separate issue. The military cannot just sit by and watch if a terrorist armed with guns and bombs attacks the public, threatens to kill them and starts shooting and bombing people. Then of course the military cannot just sit by and watch them, as a self-defence, it will step in and protect the nation and the people. The Turkish Army has a duty to protect everyone there, whether or not they come from the south-east, but only in a defensive manner. But of course these are not the only things to be done. Many other measures can be taken, but these are the most urgent.
PRESENTER: You frequently refer to education. Various religious communities are engaged in just such activities by setting up educational institutions within Turkey and abroad. It is a matter of debate to what extent they succeed in their aims, but do you have any similar activities? Is there any question of you taking an active interest in that sector, such as opening schools in villages or educating people overseas?
ADNAN OKTAR: We...
PRESENTER: Or do you think you lack the financial resources?
ADNAN OKTAR: There is no community or organisation that can turn the whole world into a school or engage in global educational activities. There exists no such group of friends anywhere. However, I cannot think of any institution that performs such powerful activities, cultural activities, and distributes so many books as us. This year alone, some 40 million copies of my books have been downloaded free of charge from the internet. That is just the number downloaded over the internet. What other community or association can match that? Millions of other books have been sold. Tens of thousands more have been given away free of charge, and that is still going on.
PRESENTER: Are these your books, or else...
ADNAN OKTAR: My books.
PRESENTER: You referred to fuel and coal as well as distributing books. But what I mean is; are you making any efforts to educate students free of charge, to award scholarships or open your own schools?
ADNAN OKTAR: We have not done anything along those lines, but for us the most urgent issue is faith education. In other words, I do not believe that if someone lacking in faith is educated, he will be able to obtain any benefit from that education. Faith must first be ensured and strengthened in order for education to have a positive impact.
PRESENTER: Your court proceedings are still continuing, I believe?
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.
PRESENTER: Things will come to a conclusion in the days ahead, and it looks like they will be resolved in your favour.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, inshAllah.
PRESENTER: That is what we gather from the press. What about the future. I mean you have been imprisoned. Has that left any bitterness inside you? What can you tell us about that?
ADNAN OKTAR: I know that Allah creates all things. I was kept in a mental hospital for 10 months. But I give thanks, because it was Allah Who sent me there and Allah Who brought me out. I went to prison and came out again, but it was not the judge, the public prosecutor or the police who sent me there. Allah sends one in and takes one out again. For that reason…
PRESENTER: You believe it is all a test.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. In other words, I can harbour no bitterness or resentment towards the reflections of Allah, in the face of what Allah has found fitting. There is goodness and auspiciousness in it all. I have benefited from all these things. They all gave me something, deepened me, and showed me something positive. I can therefore feel no hatred or wish for retribution. I give thanks to Allah because I have seen good in them all, so anything else is out of the question.
PRESENTER: Thank you very much...
ADNAN OKTAR: Thank you.
PRESENTER: ... For appearing on our programme.
ADNAN OKTAR: Thank you.
PRESENTER: You have honestly shared your opinions with us.
ADNAN OKTAR: Many thanks to you.
PRESENTER: Dear viewers, we have come to the end of another edition of About every Subject. I wish you happiness and well-being until we meet again. Goodbye.
PRESENTER: Welcome, viewers. Here we are with Adnan Oktar, known as Adnan Hodja to the public and as the author of books written under the name of Harun Yahya. We will be chatting to him on our programme “From the Wires.” Sir, first of all, welcome to our programme.
