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An Interview with Mr. Adnan Oktar by BBC Radio (April 15, 2009)
April 2009
ADNAN OKTAR: Darwinism is the greatest sabotage and assault directed against religions in the history of the world. It is the greatest sabotage and trickery directed against human happiness, joy and feelings of brotherhood. It is satan's worst mockery in this world. Satan is currently mocking people. Millions of people have fallen prey to that mockery. They have fallen for this trap. I have thwarted, and am still thwarting this plot with clear scientific facts.
BBC: This is not something that seems to affect people's everyday lives. Anymore than- you know- certainly less than people's how people feel about the relationship with Allah, how they feel about the relationship with family. How do they do good in the world. How do they get along seems to me to be much more effect me personally than whether Darwinism is correct or not.
ADNAN OKTAR: Darwinism lies at the root of World War I and World War II. Darwinism lies behind all terrorist attacks in the world. Darwinism also lies behind PKK terror. And Darwinism is behind [atheist] Freemasonry and atheist Zionism. The current global economic crisis arose as the result of an egotistical, selfish system. And Darwinism lies behind that as well. In other words, Darwinism is the worst satanic assault ever on human happiness, joy, faith and living in peace.
BBC: You mean survival of the fittest. One race dominates another?
ADNAN OKTAR: Not just that. It is those in the right who are strong, but Darwinism believes that the strong are in the right. This is a perversion. Because those who are right are the strong ones. In addition, it is a theory that treats a large part of humanity like animals. It is a system that regards the Turks and the blacks, the native Australians and certain other races as primitive entities. That is terrible immorality and deeply repellent. All human beings are equal. The only difference may lie in moral virtues. In other words, virtuous people are the superior ones.
BBC: In the United States, people who don't believe in Darwin are called creationists. And theories from my latest understanding is either they mix a little bit evolution and God or they believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, which puts the world at not very old. So what is the alternative, what is the origin of the humans?
INTERPRETER: But sorry I couldn't get the question?
BBC: In America creationists, either the intelligent design for instance "God had a hand in evolution" or what they read in the Bible is literal -you know that- in six days God created heavens and earth and humans and beasts. I just wonder what his belief is?
ADNAN OKTAR: Allah created the world 10 or 15 billion years ago. He created with the Big Bang. I think that human beings, modern man, what we refer to as Homo sapiens, the Prophet Adam (pbuh), were created 1,5 or 2 million years ago. And I consider that all living things were created in their original forms and have never changed, because that is what fossils demonstrate. When we look at more than 100 million fossils we see that living things have not changed in any way. There is not even a single transitional fossil in the kind Darwinists claim to have. But if everywhere were full of transitional fossils, if there were very peculiar life forms around, as Darwin said, then I would say that is how Allah created human beings, that is how He created living things, but there are none. Since there are none, since when we look at fossils we see that all living things are perfectly formed and complete, then that means that Allah created them like that and they never changed. That is a scientific fact. To coerce that means opposing science. And that means that Darwinism is a religion, a pagan religion.
BBC: So Miskawayh's ideas?....
ADNAN OKTAR: Ibn Miskawayh is a classic psychopath. Not a scientist.
BBC: Okay, and where does, may I guess Darwin's theory is just as much out of scenarios or anything else... How do you come by your believes? I wonder what evidence is he using for the theory that he is saying that Big Bang came 10-15 billion years ago, humans came over two million?
ADNAN OKTAR: We look at the scientific research. That is what the scientific evidence shows.
BBC: So it is an interesting mix of; you believe scientists in means like the dating of fossils, but it is how it all came together that you disagree? I mean he is using numbers from scientists but then use backwards. The scientists believe Darwin. The ones who are making, putting the numbers on those fossils believe that they are part of evolution that Darwin put forward?...
INTERPRETER: I didn't get it. No but he says the problem is that he thinks Darwin is not scientific. Fossils are scientific to prove that evolution did not happen.
BBC: Right but the scientists that are coming up with the theories of how old the earth is, when those fossils are from, they believe in Darwin?
ADNAN OKTAR: I regard paleontologists and geologists as scientists. I do not regard Darwinists as scientists. Because it is a pagan religion. It is not the first time there has been this belief that the whole universe came about by chance. It was also around in Sumerian times. The Sumerians also believed that all living things emerged by chance from water or from mud. That was how it was in ancient Egypt, in Pharaoh's time. They believed that all living things emerged from the mud by the edge of the River Nile, and quite by chance. Abnormal people like Darwin and Miskawayh share that belief. And these are all a pagan religion. They are the priests of a pagan religion. Dawkins, Darwin and Miskawayh are people who espouse pagan beliefs and who have developed their own ideas in the light of pagan thinking. It is therefore a separate faith. It's value appears in the history of religions. We can evaluate it in terms of religious history, but not of science. For example, a physicist is a scientist, or a professor of chemistry. We can receive and use their knowledge, and they are important. I respect them.
BBC: But again there are respected paleontologists and geologists generally I think believe Darwin's theories. They may not be Darwinists, but I think his theories inform what they do. You know the people who find these, who go digging for these fossils, scientists generally agree with Darwin.
ADNAN OKTAR: That was so until recently. But when we put forward more than 100 million fossils that proved that living things never evolved, and when we put forward the existence of the fossils which proved that the living things remained the same and never went through any change, and when we proved that there is not even a single transitional fossil Darwinism collapsed across the world. They are in a complete state of panic. They went and held a meeting where the Pope was, and collected Catholic priests together and commenced Darwinist propaganda. They went and collected Jewish Rabbis and Chief Rabbis together and had them say "Darwinism is a fact." And now in Turkey they are collecting the religion scholars and make them say "Darwinism is a fact". That means that in materialist terms they realized they could no longer defend Darwinism and it collapsed then and there. They are now trying to defend Darwinism in religious terms. But they have been totally routed there, too. It is declared that Darwinism has been routed and defeated.
BBC: Do you consider your teachings to be influenced by Islam or do you just happen to be a scholar and teacher who is Islam?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, the ones who look would see it. There is not the slightest change. It is clear enough for even a primary school student to understand.
BBC: So my question was whether his teachings are influenced by Islam somehow or whether he just happens to be a teacher who is a Muslim?
ADNAN OKTAR: The reason is this. I totally follow the clear scientific facts. For example, how does rain form? Water on land and in the sea evaporates and rises. Then it meets a cold layer and falls back to earth as rain. That is a scientific fact. I believe that. The Qur'an also confirms it. When it comes to Darwinism I look at the fossils. Since there has been no change, that means that Allah created all living things in their original forms, without imposing any change on them, and has preserved them in that form right down to the present day. That is what we see. But if I saw peculiar life forms, then as I have already said, that is what I would have believed instead. In other words, I believe in what science shows, what exact science proves. But the Qur'an already teaches us reason, the truth and science. The Qur'an advocates what is scientific, the truth. The Qur'an does not advocate nonsense. Darwinism is total nonsense. It maintains that all the universe, and life, plants, animals and everything, human beings, all came about by chance. That is the most ridiculous, irrelevant idea in the world. It is the worst possible and most irrational explanation.
BBC: Okay, but when I look up on the internet, people call him "The Muslim creationist". Right? So that's my point. You don't come up with creationism unless you're a Christian. I mean, you know they go together. Not all Christians believe in creationism but creationists are Christian cause they take from the text, the Bible. So when I find you online, they call you "the Muslim creationist". So I wonder do they go all together or are you just a scientist who happens to be a Muslim?
ADNAN OKTAR: I am just a Muslim.
BBC: A scientist who happens to be a Muslim?
ADNAN OKTAR: I have been a Muslim ever since childhood. But I believe in science and am inseparable from science because science is inseparable from the Qur'an. For example, in explaining how a protein cannot come into being by chance, I explain it using science. I am not stating that this cannot happen by chance by using a verse from the Qur'an. The Qur'an says no such thing. This is a fact revealed by science. But the Qur'an also supports science. It supports its general logic. Science proves that it is impossible for a protein to form by chance.
BBC: The Foundation though does more than Darwin. From the reading that I did you're sort of seen, I mean, something of a spiritual guide, you know, to people, that goes beyond science. Doesn't it?
ADNAN OKTAR: It is clear in terms of my religious devotion that I am a Muslim. But a devout person is also a scientist. In other words, science and Islam go hand in hand. That is what the Qur'an says. It says that those who truly fear Allah are scientists. The Qur'an encourages people who research and investigate and act according to exact sciences. For example, the Qur'an tells us the universe was created with the Big Bang, that it came about at a time when there was no space and time, and that space and time formed afterward. It revealed that 1400 years ago, and it has proved to be true. People at first resisted that, but what the Qur'an said turned out to be true.
BBC: Do you accept that label that I see on Western press, as the "Muslim creationist"?
ADNAN OKTAR: People can say whatever they like. There is no problem with that, but a Muslim is in any case a proponent of Creation. It is actually wrong in terms of literary esthetics, illogical to use the term creationist, because someone who believes in Allah also believes that Allah created everything. There is no need to add the word creationist. I believe in Creation as it is described in the Qur'an. The Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will come in 10-20 years. He will also confirm what I have been saying is the actual truth. In that event all Europe and all Christians will be of that opinion as well. The Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will also say that he is opposed to Darwinism. He will also espouse Creation. All Christians' doubts will thus be resolved.
BBC: Where is that in text? Is that in Qur'an? I saw that online, I wondered?
ADNAN OKTAR: It is written in detail in the Qur'an.
BBC: How does it get that specific, ten or fifteen years?
ADNAN OKTAR: We can see it from the hadith of our Prophet (saas). I can cite references from the Qur'an. It is in verse 157 of Surat an-Nisa. There are verses about the coming of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). In verse 55 of Surat al-'Imran and verse 159 of Surat an-Nisa. And we can see it from all the Prophet's (saas) words. Our Prophet (saas) says Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will come. He and the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will join up and rid the world of materialism, atheism, communism and all deviant ideas. Together they will spread Islam throughout the world when the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) comes.
ADNAN OKTAR: The whole world will be brothers and as one.
BBC: Can I just ask you to show me, Dr. Cihat showed me the fossils over there. Do you have the pictures that you can show me, you held up for the television ?
ADNAN OKTAR: Miskawayh says "man came from a date tree." But I hold up [the picture of] a 160-million-year-old date and a present-day one. It is unchanged. The date tree did not gradually turn into a human being capable of driving cars or playing ping pong in a holiday camp. It has remained exactly the same. There has been no change. This is a present-day date palm and that a 160-million-year-old one. It never turned into a human being. I point to the scientific evidence as a rebuttal of Miskawayh's psychopathic beliefs.
That is the kind of thing I have to put up with. I spend my days responding to such claims of such criminal types.
BBC: Okay, thank you so much.
ADNAN OKTAR: Thank you, too.
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